Transcription
Chapitre 1 :
Introduction: Shabbos Kestenbaum Flips the Script
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Hi everyone
and welcome to a special episode of Real Talk with Rabbi Row.
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Usually
that's me interviewing guests and today I was so excited to bring on the one
and only Shabus Kaman, but he's actually asked that we flip the script
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and he had
a bunch of questions he wants to ask me. So this will probably be more Shabas
interviewing me than me interviewing Shabas. But I'm just very very privileged
and honored that you are with us.
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The honor
is all mine. I'm really looking forward to the conversation.
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[music]
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For anybody
who's uh I don't know where you've been living if you don't know Shabas Castau
but he became famous as a student in Harvard who experienced firsthand intense
anti-semitism in the
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university
doing nothing about it and took the courageous step of taking Harvard to court
and has since then become not only a very strong
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spokesperson
for the American conservative movement but also as a very proud Jew and a proud
Zionist as well. I was recently at a very watched White
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House
hearings on anti-semitism and generally speaking is just a very wonderful
person and just if you know him offscreen off camera he's just such
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such a
great guy and it's just really amazing to have Shabas with with me and and
hopefully I'll be able to answer some of your questions. Uh if you do like this
content please do remember to
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like to
subscribe and to click on the notification button so that you get notified as
content comes through. So, Rabbi, there's a lot I want to get into,
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but I first
want to set the scene. If I'm a Christian and I'm opening up the Hebrew Bible,
there really is a discrepancy between what God is telling
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the
Israelites and then what Jews are practically doing as it pertains to their
religious rituals on a daily basis. So, you will not find any type of
Chapitre 2 :
Why Jewish Practice Goes Beyond the Hebrew Bible
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commandment
referring to a yamaka. You will not find a commandment about making blessings
on food before you partake in them. So just help me and help the
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audience
understand why do Jews practice the things they do, especially when taken into
a fact that if you're reading the Hebrew Bible, you wouldn't know to do those
things.
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It's a good
question, but can I somewhat dispute the premise, please? Um, so I think if
you're looking at the Hebrew Bible alone, right, and you look at
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Jewish
practice, we rest on the seventh day, right? We don't do work on the seventh
day. Now, we may do we may have more details around that than explicitly
prescribed in the in the Hebrew Bible,
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but that's
what we do. We keep all the dietary laws of Leviticus, all the lists of animals
you can't eat, we don't eat,
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right? All
the um the laws of of not putting wool and linen in your garment,
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we keep
that. The the laws of of wearing the the messages of the shama, the of the
oneness of God on our heads, we do that. Now, you might say, "Okay, but
the details aren't explicit in the Torah."
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But the the
biblical law from cover to cover, we do. Yes, we don't have a temple. Nowadays,
we don't have the court system nowadays. So, we study it
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instead.
But every um or not every Orthodox Jew, but lots of Orthodox Jews can tell you
exactly how the temple looked, exactly what went on there. We are completely in
harmony with the
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biblical
text. When we want to study why bad things happen to good people, we look in
the book of Eio of Job. When we want to understand how to get out of dark
thoughts and depression, we go to
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the book of
Cohelis, Ecclesiastes. We live this stuff. So, it's not accurate to say we
don't live the Hebrew Bible.
Chapitre 3 :
What Is the Talmud, Really? (And Where Does It Come From?)
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Now what
you're alluding to is but in addition to the Hebrew Bible we have the whole
Talmudic corpus of multiolumed works which get a lot of attention
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online
which are the question of how do we translate the word of the Bible don't do
malika on Shabbat don't do work on Shabbat what does that mean what how
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does that
work in practical details what happens if you're a weaver and a shoemaker and
this that yeah that we do in addition and then we have customs that have
evolved like this this is not
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a biblical
law to wear and if a person wants to keep the full biblical law they don't have
to it's it's a nice custom that we've developed So, I do want to get into the
Telmouth, but just before I
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do, just so
I understand, when we talk about the Torah, we're not simply referring to
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus,
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Deuteronomy, Numbers. Like, we're referring to this this corpus of Jewish law that was given
to Moses on Mount Si.
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That
certainly includes the five books of Moses. It certainly includes the Nave and
the prophets. It certainly includes the Kuim, the later writings. But you're
making the argument just by understand
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it doesn't
end there. There's this conversation that the rabbis pick up when the Hebrew
Bible ends. And that is what the Gomorrah or the Talmud is. Is that a fair
characterization?
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Fair
characterization. But people, both Orthodox Jews and non-Jews, actually get a
point wrong. They assume that what we believe is the entire Talmud was
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transmitted
to Moses at Sinai, which obviously can't be because it's basically arguments to
specific rabbis over several centuries. Um, so that's a mistake. What we call
the oral Torah,
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which or
the Talmud is really three different things. A minority is the laws given to
Moses at Sinai. And that by the way shouldn't be controversial. When
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Moses when
the Torah says don't do on Shabbat, that word needs a definition.
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What does
it mean don't do create? It's is it the word for work? It's not the only word
for work. What's included and not included in that? When the Torah says you
should wear toos, what are
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tophos? So
even a secular scholar needs to agree that in addition to the physical text of
the Bible, there was a clearly an extra an extra knowledge base
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that people
had. Whether it's cuz Moses said so or if they were secular say it was already
being practiced before the texts are written or whatever. There's clearly some
extra material, but that's
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only a
minority of of the Talmudic and and other law.
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So So
you're saying it's essentially a hundred year plus argument or discussion or
debate with these different rabbis.
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But I guess
let's just address the elephant in the room then as someone or both of us who
are terminally online too much online than we should be. It it
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does seem
to suggest and again please educate me and correct me where I'm wrong that
there is a rabbitic position that Jesus Christ is burning in his own
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excrement
in hell right now. Where am I wrong or where are those who are online where are
we wrong in simply just quoting the Talmud that clearly suggests
Chapitre 4 :
Is Jesus in the Talmud? The "Burning in Hell" Claim Debunked
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that
there's this guy Yeshu who is in his own excrement. Well, I haven't actually
fully explained what half it is, but we can come back to that because it's
actually does derive from
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Deuteronomy chapter 17. Um, which I'll get to if we'll come back to, but let you want to get
straight to this point.
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This is a
big issue, right? People today like, oh, it says Jesus burning excrement. It
doesn't say Jesus says Yeshua, right? And Yeshu is similar to
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the name
Jesus, which is Yeshua. And people assume it must be Jesus for several reasons.
One is surely Jesus would be talked about somewhere in the
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Talmud.
He's such a big person. Second of all, the names are similar. also calls him
hanatsi and later on Natsri
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actually
became a term for Christians so there's lots of links what did it mean in its
intent then Nazarene okay not actually Nazareth if it meant
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Nazareth
which there would be natsari because Hebrew Nazareth and natsarat right so it's
naz Nazarene now but why
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is it not
Jesus for many many reasons the simplest is that he lives 100 years before
Jesus how do we know because the talmud in sot the talmud you're quoting
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is gin 57
the talmud in sto 47 7 tells us the whole backstory. He was a student of Rabbi
Yoshua Ben Paraka who was one
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of two
leading rabbis 100 years before Jesus lived who was um had to flee the country
under the Hasminian persecutions of of King Alexander Yani which we also
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know that
was about 90 before the year zero. And there he has this student called Yeshu
who he gives a a telling
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off to cuz
he thinks he was talking inappropriately about a woman and that he that Yeshua
wanted to come back and repent and Rabishu was praying and he
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thought he
was not. It's a whole story and in the end Yeshu rebelled and became not only
an acromancer he became an idol worshipper which doesn't remotely
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cohhere
with the story of Jesus. Now why is he called a Nazarene? We know that from
Epiphanius who's a who's an early Christian writer who tells about different
heretical sects and refers to
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a Nazarene
group that existed before Christianity. By the way, in the New Testament in the
book of Acts, the anti-
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Paul
people, Jews were accusing him of being a Nazarene and he says, "No, I'm
part of the way." So, and later on the Nazarines adopt Christianity, but
they
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reject Paul. And
there's a whole and then eventually eventually eventually by the third century
they become the the Jews refer to Christians as Nazarines.
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But the is
it now this is something your audience needs to understand. The Talmudic
literature is divided into two eras. There's a there's a first century
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literature
or early second century literature called the Bryes and Mishna which are the
very very early redactions and then there's like fifth century kind
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of thing
much later the redaction of the Talmud. All the first century literature never
ever ever discusses Christians.
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All the
Yeshu is in the first century.
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So it's
predisussion of Christians. Now why were Christians not discussed? for a simple
reason. The Jewish, the Christians living amongst the Jews were Jews. They
observed the Torah law. You
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see it in
the New Testament. They went to the temple while the temple was standing. They
observed the Torah law.
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They just
believed their leader had been a messiah, which lots of Jewish groups did. You
see it from Josephus. Just they believed this group believed their Messiah was
still going to come back.
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Even though
he died, was going to come back a second time. But to all intents and purposes,
they were Jews. Nobody felt a need to talk about them. The early Tamic
literature talks about
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Sadducees, right? It talks about Pharisees and Sadducees, Zealots, um, all sorts of other
groups, Cuththeians,
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Samaritans,
because they were major rebels against the basic law. All the groups that
believed they had a Messiah,
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living or
dead, were just at that time regular Jews. So, they were never discussed. So,
Yeshu was apparently 100 years before Jesus, part of this
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Nazarene
sect that was at some point idolatrous. He has five disciples, not 12. He's
actually put to death by the Sanhedrin which Jesus wasn't in any
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gospel
literature and couldn't have been because the Sanhedrin couldn't use death
penalties in the days of Jesus because the Romans had basically shut it down.
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It was
actually a completely corrupt institution by the time of the Romans.
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It had
political appointees. It couldn't function which is why the Talmud came to be
written because you couldn't trust the Sanjan anymore. The rabbis who would
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have been
proper senators and scholars had to keep their traditions. They could never be
voted on right. They couldn't follow the laws of Deuteronomy which is the
elders have to come together and
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vote on
things because they didn't trust the senator body. So there's nothing about
this Yu that that's Jesus. What happens is centuries later the Jews look back
and go but there must be Jesus.
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They're now
living under persecution under Christians. They go, "Oh, that guy is
Jesus." Right? And then the Christians hear about then go, "Oh,
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remove him
from the Talmud." But the all the medieval rabbis who studied the text and
studied the gospel and said, "No,
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no, no.
This is clearly a different person lived 100 years earlier." And I think
just historically to go on a tangent just for a moment, but it's interesting
because Jews and early
Chapitre 5 :
Early Christians Were Jews — So Why Can't Jews Follow Jesus Today?
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Christians,
if that may not be the right terminology though, but these two groups of
people, they faced a common enemy, a common persecution that was the Roman
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authorities.
It was not Jews who were persecuting Jesus himself. I do want to ask though
because there's so much to unpack, but just from a theological standpoint,
Josephus talks about it and you Rabbi Rose speak about it.
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Historically,
it's true the earliest followers of Jesus were all Jews. Jesus himself of
course is Jewish. So in the 21st century, if I'm born Jewish, but I
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really
appreciate Jewish history, I'll say, "Well, there's a strong historical
record of Jews following and worshiping Jesus, why can't I?" So from a
Jewish
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perspective,
what's theologically problematic about a Jewish person today who has been
handed a Jews for Jesus pamphlet on on the way to work? And he says, "You
know what? There's actually a
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strong
historical record of Jews doing this anyway. Why why shouldn't I look into
this?"
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So there's
different different claims that early followers of Jesus had. The first was
that he's a messiah. But that was the most benign because the fact
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that
somebody may have come into the world who's going to eventually be a messiah
has died and is going to come back. Remember what is a messiah to us.
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So it's all
the prophecies of of Isaiah chapter 11 chapter 2 all over Tanakh the whole
nations of the world coming together to Jerusalem to the mountain of
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the Lord to
serve God together. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation on shall they
learn any more war.
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Clearly
hasn't happened. So the early followers of Jesus said yeah there's going to be
a second coming. The Messiah will do the messianic bits. He will be officially
the Messiah means anointed.
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He'll be
officially anointed king of Israel by the elders of Israel and the priests of
Israel. That process will happen fully the second time he comes.
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So they
want to identify him through biblical texts and say this is the guy who will be
the Messiah. He's come into the world, died, is coming back again.
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The early
followers said that and most Jews were like we don't think that's true. But who
cares? If he comes out the grave and becomes our Messiah, builds the temple,
brings brings all to the
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Torah,
brings all the nations of the world to serve God, fantastic. That's not an
issue. What became more of an issue is when you started to get a theology of
abrogation of Torah
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which again
depends which Christian groups you'll ask Paul was certain seems to have been
pushing that right we know that the early followers of Jesus in
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Jerusalem
according to the New Testament are saying that Jews still have to keep the law
but Gentiles can join the people
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of Israel
without keeping the law which is exactly what we say that's called we call that
the Noahide law right in other words the the principles of ethical
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monotheism
attach you to Israel on some level Right? As a non-Jew, you don't need to keep
the Torah. You keep you attached to Israel by keeping the law.
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You become
part of of um a relationship with God as a as a good non-Jew. And Jews have to
keep the Torah. Then came the point when the message started being
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no, the
Torah is now abregated. It's finished because of the death of Jesus.
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Jewish
Christians didn't adopt that position for a very long time.
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Okay.
Again, there's a lot to unpack there. When we talk about Jesus as a messiah,
please correct me if I'm wrong,
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but Judaism
at the time of Roman rule was the only religion that had messianic
expectations. So when we say could someone come back, yeah, possibly. What
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is our
approach when it comes to a messiah? What does a messiah actually have to do
practically?
Chapitre 6 :
What Does Judaism Actually Require of the Messiah?
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For us, for
us, a messiah is to fulfill the prophecies of Isaiah. For us, the key to the
Messiah is not their political power and position. For us,
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the key to
the Messiah is the messianic era. The prophets talk much much more about the
era than they do about the individual. The era has to be an era
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where the
world has peace, where all of mankind comes together in one as distinct nations
with distinct um you know gifts they can give to one another
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but serving
the same God. And you could argue to some degree that the world is closer to
that than it was 2,000 years
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ago for
sure. Right? Christianity certainly spread lots of uh ethical monarchism to the
world. Islam has spread lots of ethical monotheism, but the full fulfillment
not even close.
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Nation will
not lift up sword against nation on shall they learn any more war. We're
nowhere near that. So again, just to just so I understand,
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are you
suggesting that those things have to happen first? Nation shall not lift up
sword and then the Messiah comes or the Messiah comes and does those things
afterward?
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The the
Messiah comes and does those things, but they're not called the full Messiah
till they've done those things from our perspective. Okay, let's shift
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the
conversation just for a moment because again, as two terminally online
individuals, most of the audience we're interacting with are Christians who
have a lot of questions on the Hebrew Bible.
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I spend a
lot of time working with the evangelical community in the United States. And
there's this misconception in Judaism, oh, they only like us, so we go to
Israel, there's rapture, and we're all damned to hell. When in reality,
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more often
than not, I am told Genesis 12:3, Genesis 123, Genesis 123, that those who
bless Israel will be blessed.
Chapitre 7 :
Genesis 12 & "Those Who Bless Israel Will Be Blessed" Explained
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And the
obvious question, especially those on the far right, who I would say are
nefarious actors, I don't think they're asking this with good intentions. I
think it's more positing a theory, but I digress. They'll say, "Oh,
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so you're
saying 1948, the political state of Israel is a fruition of God's biblical
covenant with Abraham." So, as the rabbi, how are we as Jews meant to
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understand
Genesis 12:3, God telling Abraham that those who bless you, I will bless and
those who curse you, I will curse?
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Yeah. So,
first of all, I would say it's not our business to tell Christians how to think
about Christianity. There are strong debates within Christianity. I agree with
you. I think evangelical
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Christians
and other Christians of many most of them are very very sincere in their love
of Israel, love of the Jewish
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people. Um
but you have lots of allies of Israel and the Jewish people who don't have the
same theological viewpoint. Right? The ca the Catholic
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world
generally speaking won't look at the text the way certain evangelical
Protestants will. that they'll claim some form of replacement or something,
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but they
could still be very ardent supporters of Israel and very very um strong
supporters of Jews having the same right as everybody else, especially
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since
Nostraat um when the Vatican affirmed that explicitly and so on. So, okay, but
leave that aside. Bless those who bless
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you because
it's clearly referring to Israel. People say it isn't, but it is. It's affirmed
many, many, many times.
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The
classical story is in in the book of Numbers with the prophet Bam from the
nations of the world who tries to curse and says, "I can't curse them
because they're blessed." and [snorts] affirmed all the way through
through the biblical
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text.
Again, Christians may argue that's now been transferred. I'm not going to get
into that theological discussion.
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But the key
to bless those who bless you, those who curse you, I will curse you. There was
that famous little uh clip between Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson. And Tucker
goes, "What you mean
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the
government of Israel?" And and you know, of course, he caught Ted Cruz in
the moment, but Ted would have said,
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they were
talking the time by Iran. I think Ted Cruz's right response would have been no
the nation of Israel, but the Iranians are not planning to get a nuclear bomb
to change the government of [laughter] Israel. They're not aiming a
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nuclear
bomb at Israel so Netanyahu will be replaced by somebody else. They want to
destroy the nation of Israel. Okay.
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But um but
yeah, the nation of Israel is never judged by its political leader,
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right? All
the way through the Bible and Akov was the king of the northern kingdom and
lots of bad rotten political leaders. There's the nation, there's
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there's the
leaders. But the key to that verse actually is the end of the verse.
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And this
what people I think is a big root of anti-semitism is the end of the verse in a
positive way. I know it sounds crazy. The end of the verse is
Chapitre 8 :
The Real Meaning of "Chosen People" — It's Not What You Think
17:00
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through you
will be blessed all families of earth. The charge to Abraham which is then
given to Isaac in a slightly different way after the binding of
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Isaac. Uh
the verse there says through your seed. The people like oh it's not the seed of
Israel. No it says
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black and
white the seed. Through your seed will be blessed every nation on earth. And
then Jacob is given the blessing similar to Abraham,
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right?
Through you will be blessed, all families of earth through your seed. Our
mission, people get mixed up. You think you're chosen. We do not think that we
have some kind of special privileged
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God's pets
in the world to be treated nicely. We do not think we get to look down upon
anybody. On the contrary, Abraham's mission, Isaac's mission,
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Jacob's
mission is through you will be blessed all families of earth. Through you
keeping the Torah and you living up to it, eventually the world will come to
monotheism. Eventually the world will
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come to
these ideas and eventually the world will be blessed and that's really how we
have to see ourselves and our responsibility. And by the way
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subconsciously
I think lots of anti-C might see that too cuz think what they say all the
problems of the world are the Jewish people's fault. Now consciously they then
say it must be
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conspiracies
you have secret groups you know I always say like Trump's re-election campaign
not he's not whoever stands in his seats get one
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second uh
the economy now's booming at four or 5% growth you know you got you got
unemployment falling you got low inflation we should well if there's
18:17
18 minutes
et 17 secondes
these Jews
running it we should be grateful to them you know but what they're saying is I
think in the subconscious if you you are responsible for all the problems of
the world because that's what God said you're
18:26
18 minutes
et 26 secondes
meant to be
the source of blessing and I think what we have to turn that around does is say
whether we like or not,
18:31
18 minutes
et 31 secondes
we're not
going to get treated the same as everyone else. Whether we like it or not, the
United Nations, whether there's a war or not, will always make twothirds of the
resolution anti-Jew, anti-Israel,
18:39
18 minutes
et 39 secondes
which is
the Jewish collective nowadays.
18:42
18 minutes
et 42 secondes
So, let's
take that responsibility seriously. Don't try and build a secular Israel that's
just like every other nation, cuz no one's going to treat us that way. Take
responsibility through
18:50
18 minutes
et 50 secondes
you'll be
blessed, all families of Earth. Any digress. That's a point that Charlie Kirk
would always say that when Jews tried to defend Israel by saying,
18:56
18 minutes
et 56 secondes
"Well,
we're just like any other country." Charlie would be the first one to say,
"No, you're not like every other country. You're a country where the the
the book of the Bible comes to life. You
19:05
19 minutes
et 5 secondes
You can't
dig more than 5t without uncovering some ruins of some temple thousands of
years ago. And you should own what makes you unique." And this sort of
reminds me of a line it might
19:13
19 minutes
et 13 secondes
have been
from Golden Ear that the world will respect Israel when Israel respects Israel.
But I digress. Um, you mentioned anti-semitism. So, let's go there.
19:22
19 minutes
et 22 secondes
I want to
play devil's advocate for a moment. So you talk about choseness not being
better, but then why does the Torah refer to goyan in a lesser term?
19:30
19 minutes
et 30 secondes
Just in
case people are are watching the Nick Fuentes is you and I might be saying this
as choseness doesn't mean better. But come on, do we really believe that?
Because if we really do
Chapitre 9 :
Does the Torah Look Down on Non-Jews? The Truth About "Goyim"
19:39
19 minutes
et 39 secondes
believe
that, where does this go ideology come from?
19:42
19 minutes et 42 secondes
Okay, good question. So I would say a few things. First of all, forget what you and I
believe. What does the Torah itself say? That's the only thing that matters. If
Jews fall short of the
19:50
19 minutes
et 50 secondes
Torah's
ideal, then that's upon us to rise to it. The Torah's ideal is very,
19:54
19 minutes
et 54 secondes
very clear.
God cares about all nations of earth. I just quoted to you the verses that say
it black and white. You can see many other times. Look at the whole book of of
uh of Yona, Jonah,
20:04
20 minutes
et 4 secondes
right?
Which is a prophet of Israel is sent to one of the enemies of Israel,
20:08
20 minutes
et 8 secondes
Ninve, to
make them repent, not to become Jewish.
20:12
20 minutes
et 12 secondes
And God
says to him at the end, he's upset because he knows these are like these are
the enemies of Israel. They should be being punished. And God makes him plant a
tree and then he gets destroyed and he says that hurt you,
20:23
20 minutes
et 23 secondes
right? This
is my creations. These are my children. This is my humanity is what I created.
You're meant to be there. I
20:31
20 minutes
et 31 secondes
care about
you cuz you're meant to be a light that shines to them. But my vision is every
nation on earth. Why does Isaiah talk about the end of history being all the
nations coming not to be
20:40
20 minutes
et 40 secondes
Jewish,
coming to the holy mountain together to pray to God? Why does Safana Zephaniah
say the same thing? That's God's vision for the world. So the Torah
20:48
20 minutes
et 48 secondes
is
extremely clear and our I want to come back to Tal at some point, but I do want
to answer your question. The Talmud is really the fulfillment of the biblical
idea that whenever you don't
20:56
20 minutes
et 56 secondes
know the
law, you go to the judges of Israel. That's what it's meant to be.
21:00
21 minutes
And the
elders of Israel and they tell you the law. But the Talmud tells us the
attitudes we're meant to have. And it's very clear of us ethics of the fathers,
21:07
21 minutes
et 7 secondes
right? That
means the ethics of the the heads of that rabbitical assembly, the elders of
Israel tell you,
21:14
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et 14 secondes
you're
meant to look at every human being as beloved because they're in the image of
God. Right? Okay. Now, what are we described as in the Torah? God says before
he gives the the Torah to us in
21:22
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et 22 secondes
in Exodus
chapter 19 and 20 leading into the actual ten commandments says that uh you
will be for me a kingdom of priests, a holy nation.
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et 34 secondes
What are
priests and holy people? In the ancient world, they were privileged classes.
They owned the land. You have to respect them. In the Torah, they're
21:42
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et 42 secondes
not the
privileged class. They don't own land. They're not allowed to own land.
21:45
21 minutes
et 45 secondes
They're not
allowed any political power or privilege. Their job is to bring elevate the
rest of the nation. So,
21:51
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et 51 secondes
you're
meant to be a nation whose job is not privilege. It's to elevate the rest of
the world. That's how you're going to judge whether you're succeeding or
failing. So, the Torah is very very
21:59
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et 59 secondes
clear what
what we are. Now, the word goim in the Torah means nations. In fact, that word
is kardosh a holy nation is actually calling us a You
22:08
22 minutes
et 8 secondes
are correct
and anti-semites are correct that there are Jews who use it disparagingly that
that we have to hands up there definitely are right as there
22:16
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et 16 secondes
are um lots
of people who use lots of words disparagingly about lots of groups right and
and it's very possible in in in in the persecutions Jews underwent
22:25
22 minutes
et 25 secondes
some people
had a kind of counter push but I think most Jews don't use it disparagingly I
was raised in an orthodox home where we were told my
22:35
22 minutes
et 35 secondes
mother in
fact wouldn't even let us use the word because some people use it disparagingly
until it became very obvious that it just means you know nations of the world
and that's all the
22:42
22 minutes
et 42 secondes
word means.
So do some people use it disparaging? Yeah. It's like some people is like is
Christ as king anti-semitic?
22:47
22 minutes
et 47 secondes
No, it's
not. Does some people use it that way? Yes. Right. So is an anti-
22:52
22 minutes et 52 secondes
non-Jewish word? Absolutely not. Are there people who use that way? Yes.
22:55
22 minutes
et 55 secondes
Should we
point out to Jews who use it wrongly that that that's not the right thing to
do? Yes. We would hope Christians point out to people who use Christ as king in
in an anti-semitic way
23:03
23 minutes
et 3 secondes
not to do
it right. We should all learn to use these phrases in in the right way they're
intended.
23:07
23 minutes
et 7 secondes
in the
Torah and in Judaism and Jewish law, they're always intended to mean nations of
the world,
23:12
23 minutes
et 12 secondes
which is an
important distinction you're making. So, theologically, God is not using in a
derogatory way or as a pjorative. Yet, sociologically,
23:19
23 minutes
et 19 secondes
culturally,
had there been Jews in the past who had used it? Possibly,
23:23
23 minutes et 23 secondes
probably. Yes.
Um, but then most people when they use it mean in ordinary discourse just mean
a gentile, somebody who's not Jewish.
23:30
23 minutes
et 30 secondes
It reminds
me of a line from Relinberg, the founder of this Yeshiva Asia Torah,
23:33
23 minutes
et 33 secondes
that
Judaism is perfect. Jews by virtue of being humans, we're not always perfect.
And yes, I agree. We we should always treat Jews, Christians, Muslims,
23:41
23 minutes
et 41 secondes
anyone with
the respect that they deserve as being a creation of the divine will. I we will
go back to the Talmud, but let me just ask one last question in the few minutes
we have left
23:49
23 minutes
et 49 secondes
because I
do want to push back on the whole choseness. I work at PragerU and it's
predominantly Christians that I'm working with who are wonderful people and one
of the things they don't really
Chapitre 10 :
Why Don't Jews Proselytize? The Mormon Missionary Question
23:57
23 minutes
et 57 secondes
understand
about our faith is if we believe that the religion we're practicing is truth.
It's the it's the right way to live a life. Well, they
24:06
24 minutes
et 6 secondes
would say
why don't you have an obligation to tell us that as in I know in my personal
life Mormon missionaries you know they've
24:13
24 minutes et 13 secondes
tried converting me and I always tell them if you can make a
convincing argument I'm happy to be converted but thus far it hasn't really
worked. But I would often ask them, you know, you're
24:21
24 minutes et 21 secondes
19, you're 20 years old, before you went to college, you're
spending a year in Los Angeles talking to strangers about the Book of Mormon.
Why? Why are you so
24:29
24 minutes et 29 secondes
passionate? And they said, well, if someone had the cure to
cancer, and they weren't telling people about it,
24:34
24 minutes et 34 secondes
wouldn't you find that odd as well? We as Mormons believe
that this book is the cure to all of the ailments in society,
24:40
24 minutes et 40 secondes
why you're depressed, why you're anxious, why you don't have
a good relationship, and we feel so happy reading this book that we just have
to tell you.
24:47
24 minutes et 47 secondes
Yeah. Why doesn't Judaism take that approach? Because we're
obviously so we have so much uh beauty and depth and meaning in our books. We
believe so
24:56
24 minutes et 56 secondes
strongly in it. Shouldn't we have an obligation to tell
other people and try to procilitize and convert them? It's such a great
question. On some level,
25:03
25 minutes et 3 secondes
the answer is we should, but not to the Torah, to the
Noahide law. Meaning the Torah says this is what God wants from
25:10
25 minutes et 10 secondes
humanity. He spells out to Noah. um he spells out through
the whole book of Genesis really you know Sodom is punished because of their
inhospity to
25:19
25 minutes et 19 secondes
strangers as well as other areas of the privy that's
actually the primary one you can tell from the book of Genesis what God wants
humanity to be how what standard he wants Egypt to hold up to
25:27
25 minutes et 27 secondes
what what he wants each nation to be like and that we in
theory should be spreading to the world. He then says I want a group of you to
take a much
25:36
25 minutes et 36 secondes
higher more difficult pathway because that will help shine a
light that will help elevate other people in the world as well.
25:42
25 minutes et 42 secondes
[snorts]
25:42
25 minutes et 42 secondes
Now when Christianity and Islam spread and you you can argue
I mean there are differences of opinion within Judaism what exactly the trinity
is and what
25:51
25 minutes et 51 secondes
exactly and the truth is it's not that I as a Jew don't
fully understand what Christians necessarily believe by because they hear
different things from different Christian theologians.
25:59
25 minutes et 59 secondes
So the Christians watching this video tell us in the
comments what you mean by trinity.
26:02
26 minutes et 2 secondes
Right. Right. So so they're definitely you know but let's
assume like let's say of Yakov one of the greatest rabbis ever lived that
Christianity fulfills the
26:10
26 minutes et 10 secondes
Noahide code. Let's assume that Islam fulfills the nohide
code. The more they spread that fantastic and the more anyone who spreads
ethical monotheism is
26:17
26 minutes et 17 secondes
a win for us. They are they are joining if you like you
could even say they're joining the religion of the Torah but
26:24
26 minutes et 24 secondes
not its covenant that's unique to the Jewish people. Just
like within Judaism you have a covenant for the children of Aaron or laws for
the children of Aaron who will be priests in the temple.
26:33
26 minutes et 33 secondes
Doesn't make them better than us but they get different laws
to us. They have a different role and responsibility. And just like within any
society, you sometimes will have, let's say, certain
26:41
26 minutes et 41 secondes
soldiers in the military or certain people in the political,
you expect to behave differently to other people,
26:45
26 minutes et 45 secondes
right? Because that helps lift everybody else up. So, we
would say that the spread of ethical monotheism is a win.
26:52
26 minutes et 52 secondes
That is what the Torah wants to see happen. Now, are we
meant to be should we be more active in teaching things?
26:58
26 minutes et 58 secondes
There's always a risk to that, which is that you then start
to the risk is you start to then spread it through force and so on. And that's
what we never want to do. God's plan for us was that you'll
27:06
27 minutes et 6 secondes
keep it and others will be inspired by it and take the bat
and run with it and start to spread it to the non-Jewish world, which you could
argue has been a huge part of the last 2,000 years.
27:14
27 minutes et 14 secondes
Right. I I also want to point out though, and you reminded
me of this, I never totally understood the term Jewish supremacy because white
supremacy, for example, is an exclusionary movement.
27:24
27 minutes et 24 secondes
So, I will never be admitted. My black friends will never be
admitted because a white supremacist says by virtue of being white, we have to
exclude
27:31
27 minutes et 31 secondes
non-whites. the whole idea of Jewish supremacy, I think,
just falls apart on on its face because anyone could be Jewish if they want. I
mean, to your point, we don't go out of our way to convert, but we have
converts. In fact,
27:42
27 minutes et 42 secondes
my step-grandmother is a convert to Judaism. So, if we're
supremacist, then why do we allow people into the religion to begin with? Um,
but [snorts] I digress. Let's get back to the Talmud,
27:50
27 minutes et 50 secondes
though. And, and with that, we'll close it.
Chapitre 11 : How to Responsibly Read the
Talmud (And Why the Internet Fails)
27:52
27 minutes et 52 secondes
What does the audience need to know about the Talmud? What
are we getting wrong? Both in our online echo chambers,
27:57
27 minutes et 57 secondes
in our study of theology, what is the Talmud? and and why
are there so many misconceptions about it?
28:04
28 minutes et 4 secondes
Okay, first thing about the T that everyone needs to know is
that it's not instead of the biblical law, it's a fulfillment of it. And that
why? Because in Deuteronomy chapter 17, it says,
28:13
28 minutes et 13 secondes
"What do you do?" If you're trying to really live
the biblical law, anyone could try this yourself. Just take biblical texts and
try yourself for a few days to live the law. You'll soon
28:20
28 minutes et 20 secondes
discover you'll just be jam-packed full of questions because
there'll be a thousand gray areas that are not explicitly covered by the law.
How do you do it? Right? What happens to this
28:28
28 minutes et 28 secondes
animal that's not explicitly mentioned in the Torah? Is it
kosher? Is it not? what's defined by the laws of Shabbat.
28:31
28 minutes et 31 secondes
So the Torah tells you what to do when you don't know the
law. In Deuteronomy, I said 17, it's like verses uh 8 to 11.
28:37
28 minutes et 37 secondes
If you don't know the law, you get up and go to the place
where God will rest his name, which originally was the tabernacle in Shilo,
eventually the temple in Jerusalem. You'll find the
28:45
28 minutes et 45 secondes
elders there. If it's priestly law, you speak to them. If
it's the others, you speak to the judges of Israel. And that and those appoints
the first body of judges, the 70 elders. And that ran all the time. If you
didn't know the law,
28:55
28 minutes et 55 secondes
you went to them. how their ruling they were like both the
Supreme Court with some legislative rights. The Torah says you follow what they
law they teach you and the judgment they give you. So
29:03
29 minutes et 3 secondes
that's both the interpretation and the they have the right
to make law that's biblically sanctioned and they are there all the way through
the prophetic writings always every national decision is done in consultation
with them.
29:13
29 minutes et 13 secondes
They're the ones who tell Samuel your children can't run the
state anymore. We're going to have to have a king. They're the ones who appoint
David.
29:18
29 minutes et 18 secondes
They're always there. And they continued in the second
temple. They took the Greek name Sanhedrin until it was corrupted by the
Romans. And when they couldn't run the Sanadrin anymore, now
29:26
29 minutes et 26 secondes
you have the elders of Israel no longer able to come
together and decide the law. And so we have centuries of their debates and so
on. So this is the
29:34
29 minutes et 34 secondes
attempt to try to go to the elders of Israel when they can
no longer operate in their assembly. That's what the Talmud is. Second thing
people need to understand is when you hear a quote from
29:42
29 minutes et 42 secondes
the Talmud, the Talmud, someone when you hear somebody say,
I read the Talmud and it says, you laugh. I've been studying Talmud since the
age of 10.
29:49
29 minutes et 49 secondes
[clears throat] That's many, many decades. I still haven't
yet finished it.
29:52
29 minutes et 52 secondes
Right? I've I'm I've submitted a PhD in the philosophy of
mathematics. I'm a much bigger expert relative to experts of philosophy of
mathematics in that
30:01
30 minutes et 1 seconde
than I am in Talmud relative to the biggest experts. It's a
gigantic work.
30:05
30 minutes et 5 secondes
It's many many many volumes, very dense and complex
material. To master it is very very difficult. That's why we spend most of our
days in yeshiva studying so
30:12
30 minutes et 12 secondes
that we can now to apply the biblical law to every single
situation in life.
30:17
30 minutes et 17 secondes
Third thing is if you hear somebody give a quote about the
Talmud for almost no law can be decided by a oneliner in the Talmud. It's
debates
30:24
30 minutes et 24 secondes
that run many many pages. I've seen anti-semmites quote
something like saying Jews are allowed to steal from non-Jews, right? And
they're only not
30:31
30 minutes et 31 secondes
allowed to be because of of of uh of uh sanctifying God's
name. That is a rejected hypothesis. The Todd of say could it be this what it
means? You
30:40
30 minutes et 40 secondes
know, we've got an ancient quote. We tried to decipher what
it means. Could we suggest this? And the Talmud says,
30:44
30 minutes et 44 secondes
could it mean that? And they're rejected. No way could you
say that you could steal from an entreprene so so it's you have to know there's
30:53
30 minutes et 53 secondes
often pages of discussion you can look it up yourself but
you have to know where the discussion begins where does it end often it's
mitigated by a ruling somewhere completely different for example people will
see online it says
31:02
31 minutes et 2 secondes
there's often a discussion about unfortunately there was a
lot of abuse of children in the ancient world right there was especially in
cultures where Jews lived and it discusses what happens
31:10
31 minutes et 10 secondes
if there was a sexual interaction at what age is even
considered a sex act and what happens if they're a child What happens if they
then convert to Judaism?
31:16
31 minutes et 16 secondes
What happens? Oh, they're discussing relations with a
three-year-old or a 9-year-old or a this or a that. So, it must mean they're
endorsing it at the top in that discussion. It doesn't rule
31:24
31 minutes et 24 secondes
whether it's permitted or forbidden. You have to go to
Kdition 41. And you see it's completely forbidden. No marital relations are
ever allowed to the minor,
31:31
31 minutes et 31 secondes
right? But you see people have done that. It's a very
complex text full of lots of multigenerational discussions and there's an
enormous amount of abuse
31:40
31 minutes et 40 secondes
at online where going back already several centuries
anti-semmites would cherrypick quotes or even misquot.
31:46
31 minutes et 46 secondes
Sometimes they'll misunderstand or try to sum up a
discussion and just get it completely wrong. There's a very famous one that
circulates every time you show people as a rabbi that's not what the
31:54
31 minutes et 54 secondes
Talmud says. They say, "Ah, but the Tel says you're
allowed to lie to non-Jews because it says in Libé David 37 that you're allowed
to lie David doesn't
32:03
32 minutes et 3 secondes
exist." I assume there must have been a book called Dra
David. It turns out there's about 30 books called Dra David.
32:09
32 minutes et 9 secondes
I know somebody went through all of them and never 37 and
everything, but that's even if there is someone some there's no draic
32:16
32 minutes et 16 secondes
work. It's not part of this, but Libé David 37 apparently
allegedly says you're allowed to lie to non-Jews. I think that's completely
fabricated. The actual ruling on it is in the Maralama.
32:26
32 minutes et 26 secondes
I think it's 49 where he says to misrepresent Torah is a is
like a subcategory of serving idols. Wow.
32:33
32 minutes et 33 secondes
Because you take the word of God and distort it. You can't
do it to save a Jew's life. If some if if you were in a court and a non-Jewish
judge, let's say in old days when they kill a Jew for
32:41
32 minutes et 41 secondes
keeping the law says, "Does your law say X?" you
are not allowed to pretend the law says something else because you're
distorting the word of God or the elders that he set up to transmit the law.
So,
32:51
32 minutes et 51 secondes
but that's so yes. So, so to so to the audience out there,
there's been it's it's it's always been the thing anti-semats have used to
attack Jews because they can't attack the Bible because to Christians, the
Bible's holy,
33:00
33 minutes
too. So, if they wanted to attack us, it would be attacking
the Talmud. And because they know the average non-Jew will never be able to
study the Talmud,
33:07
33 minutes et 7 secondes
they can literally say anything and it will pass. So, you
either get out of context quotes or just attempts to sum something up that are
completely wrong.
33:14
33 minutes et 14 secondes
I have a whole series of videos debunking a all this stuff,
you know.
33:16
33 minutes et 16 secondes
So, there's no uh Jewish version of the Islamic principle of
tea. I think that's an important point to leave it off. I kind of lied. Um I
have one last
Chapitre 12 : Is Biblical Prophecy Being
Fulfilled in Israel Today?
33:25
33 minutes et 25 secondes
question then I promise I'll shut up. We were talking about
this earlier, but irrespective of one's attitudes towards the state of Israel,
BB Netanyahu, the
33:32
33 minutes et 32 secondes
orchestration of the war in Gaza, it is very difficult,
especially for someone like me who doesn't live in Israel and I come here as
much as I can, but my life
33:39
33 minutes et 39 secondes
is in the United States. When I come to Israel, it is so
difficult to escape the obvious biblical prophecies that objectively speaking
have have kind of
33:47
33 minutes et 47 secondes
come true. It's hard when I pass a playground on the way to
pray at the Western Wall to not think of the chapters in Zechariah of that the
old uh
33:56
33 minutes et 56 secondes
will sit and watch the kids playing in the street. So my
final question then I promise I'll stop talking is do you see biblical prophecy
being fulfilled
34:04
34 minutes et 4 secondes
through Israel today? Do you see the the words of the Bible
coming to life just in your daily experiences living in this land?
34:11
34 minutes et 11 secondes
One million%. I'll tell you something like this. I say to my
children when I when I bring them um there so we used to land in Mgorin airport
and travel to
34:20
34 minutes et 20 secondes
Jerusalem I'd show them pictures of what this used to look
like under mandate Palestine when it was a half a desert and now it's forest
and show them the prophecies in Isaiah of of the way the
34:28
34 minutes et 28 secondes
land's going to become so fulfilled and I also said to them
you know it's only four or five generations ago that religious Jews in Europe
or North Africa
34:36
34 minutes et 36 secondes
or the Middle East were laughed at by assimilated Jews who
would say you still believe all this ridiculous prophecy In the 1800s, the
reform movement in
34:45
34 minutes et 45 secondes
Germany removed Jerusalem and Isaf from the prayer book
because they said it's a joke. Of course, we're not literally going to ever
come back there, right?
34:51
34 minutes et 51 secondes
And it was these Jews who believed nevertheless it's going
to somehow happen now been vindicated. Thousands of years of people praying
every day to
34:59
34 minutes et 59 secondes
Jerusalem asking God bring us back and here we are back.
Right? Of course, we don't want to be in conflict with Palestinians. We want to
find a way that we can have security then they can have
35:08
35 minutes et 8 secondes
dignity and that's a thorn in our consciousness, right? As
well as religious Jews. We don't want to be here fighting wars. We certainly
have not got
35:15
35 minutes et 15 secondes
it right as a Jewish people. We haven't fulfilled the final
part of God's prophecy, the most important, which is that we become the
blessing to the world. This becomes the place the world
35:23
35 minutes et 23 secondes
wants to come from to learn and to heal collectively. We're
not yet there. But are we massively further? I mean are prophecies that people
put it this way.
35:33
35 minutes et 33 secondes
If if our great-grandparents being marched out of Spain in
1492 or being marched into Ashitz in in in or anywhere they were kicked out of
a country or
35:41
35 minutes et 41 secondes
being persecuted. You think what was on their lips if they
could have been shown a vision of us in the land today being able to live free
in the and in most of
35:50
35 minutes et 50 secondes
the diaspora being able to practice Judaism freely but being
back in the land back in Jerusalem able to study Judaism. They would have given
anything
35:58
35 minutes et 58 secondes
to see this. Do we still have more work to do? Absolutely.
Is this the state God wants us to be in? No. Have we got to do
36:05
36 minutes et 5 secondes
a lot of work? Absolutely. Right. Do we have enormous
gratitude to the nations of the world that have helped and support us? Yes.
Does it hurt us that we're fighting as so much the Muslim world hates us? Yes,
it hurts. And yes,
36:16
36 minutes et 16 secondes
it means we're not doing it right.
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But we're doing a lot right. And we got to get it better and
we got to fulfill that dream. And we got to feel the weight of that
responsibility. And by the way, I think it's okay if every nation feels this
responsibility. I
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don't think this supremacy. let everyone feel that you're
responsible to make the world a better place.
Chapitre 13 : Closing Reflections: Gratitude,
Responsibility & the Jewish Mission
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Right. But that I think that's what God wants us to do. I
think he's brought us back here to do it and I think we will do it. Amade
that's a beautiful way to end off.
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I was going to thank you for coming on my show, but I'm
actually on your show and this is your studio. So I guess thank you for having
me being allowed to ask you questions and for our audience.
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We were we were talking right before we we went on um about
some of the questions Rabbi Row was going to ask me and it occurred to me you
are far more interesting and far more intelligent.
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So, thank you for allowing me the opportunity to ask you all
my questions.
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I really appreciate it. And um this was filmed at Asia
Torah, where I was very privileged uh to spend two years of my life uh studying
the Hebrew Bible,
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studying Tomic law, studying Jewish wisdom. And I hope
whether you're a Jewish, Christian, Muslim, that you take your faith seriously,
and you owe it to yourself. You owe it to the future family you want to start.
You owe it to
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the society you want to build to root yourself in biblical
and religious text.
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So, Rabbi Ro, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Pleasure.
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Source : Rabbi Daniel Rowe